...is the new black. Fuck it.

Get playing and establish the story in play seems the way to go for me, so I think I'm agreeing with Graham and Ron on that thread.

The first scene should be used to set the scene, not some committee vote before the first scene. I tend to think that lines and veils and all that other "sensitivity" stuff should be found when you hit it in game.

Out of a blah-hour game session, how much of it do we have to spend chatting over coffee before we start? As little as possible I hope.

I also think that the point about genre, etc. rings true. Players can drift their game, but they have to drift it from something, right?

I think the amount of pre-game chit chat we had at Spodley Grange was about right: possibly a little too much but not overwhelmingly so. We covered the basics, e.g. what is the setting of this story and who's in it? We then threw in a few extra ideas about tone & style and we were off.

Given the discussion about revelation tokens, it would be odd to outlaw those kind of contributions at the start of the game: if somebody has a really great idea when they sit down, shouldn't they be allowed to bring it up? And if we had started playing before anything had been agreed, there are probably certain subjects that would have made me walk away from the game; not out of squeamishness, but just that I would rather discuss & be prepared for those things before we got deep into the story.

I think the epilogue in 6 Bullets could be used to skip a lot of the pre-game discussion, if wished: just let the Protagonist narrate their thing and then get on with the game, choosing Antagonists on an ad hoc basis. That method gives the Protagonist player a lot of authority, however, which drags them back into a GM role, at least in terns of setting up the story.

But isn't there a risk of creating more problems by not having a 10 minute chat before the game starts? Doesn't it make sure everyone is on the same page so that you don't get embroiled with arguments once the game is underway?

I'm not saying thrash out details upfront, but a certain amount of talking genre and content can't hurt, can it? Even if it's just to say "I'm not comfortable with blah."

Get to actual play as quickly as possible.

"Want to play a western RPG: 6 bullets for Vengeance?"

That should do it!

I really like the idea of two unknown characters meeting one dying the other becoming...the protagonist.

Stick with a classic Western genre. If you want to hint more at the revenge angle I'd emphasise The Bride motif to reference Kill Bill. Perhaps as a sample protag or a bit of setting text.

+++
JoE
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Prince of Darkness Games
Rock N' Role-Play....

I'm not saying thrash out details upfront, but a certain amount of talking genre and content can't hurt, can it? Even if it's just to say "I'm not comfortable with blah."

The thing is...as I remember the Conception playtest, the chat isn't just "I'm not comfortable with blah".

The chat we had was: what kind of setting do we want and who are the characters and how do they link together? And then I agree with Ron: most of that is more powerfully established during play.

Now, if you really wanted a Lines and Veils discussion, you could have one. But I don't think it's needed. We're in the realms of gritty gun violence, so we pretty much know what's allowed and what's not. If someone does bring in something that someone else dislikes (e.g. child abuse), then it could be dealt as it occurs: "Look, could we not go there?".

But chats about settings and characters and so on: they're good for PTA, I think, but not for this.

Graham

'Reel Adventures' does some pre-game setup as well but just to define a genre and a very brief synopsis. I would think this is the kind of setup you want in Six bullets, because, as Ron rightly points out, you want to create a lot of the story during play.

I also agree with Graham in that the people who buy 6 bullets are going to want to play a gritty revenge story game. Lines and veils seem pointless in such a game as a lot of these are already defined by the nature of the game.

Cheers

Iain

Lead Developer Mob Justice RPG

Check out my home brew games like 'Reel Adventures'

To my mind, taking ten minutes to talk about the game before you fire in is a very good thing. Yeah, sure, you can just totally get in there and play. But, to my mind, taking those ten minutes to establish the very fundamental basics of the game ("We want a cold Western set in Nebraska") is a very positive thing. Regardless of whether or not it's the new black, pre-game chitchat is very valuable (to me) and serves to lay some basic groundwork. The caveat to this is that it cannot go on too long (not more than five, ten minutes) unless this setup period is an intrinsic part of the game mechanics (a la Mortal Coil and the theme document).

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

Andrew,

Some very interesting points in that thread on the forge, and here too. For what it's worth, here are my opinions:

On the subject of setup:

I like the idea of a very brief setup, one which could be written in this form:

"This is a $GENRE tale of revenge"

So the Conception game would be:

"This is a 60s British Gangster tale of revenge"

And the Spodley game would be:

"This is a Western tale of revenge"

You need to get that clear up front. If you said:

"This is a Superhero tale of revenge"

I'd be politely explaining that I really don't want to play that, and could we please have a different value for $GENRE before we start?

I'm happier discussing Meta stuff like lines and veils at the start. When play is under way there is often a reluctance to kibosh things. I've seen games fall apart because things happened that one player found very uncomfortable, but which they would not openly speak or complain about because they did not want to "spoil the game for everyone else". So I'm of the opinion that the the statement of the game needs to be something like:

"This is a $GENRE tale of revenge. It will be violent and bloody, but $LINESANDVEILS will not be included"

But that's just me.

On deciding who's the Protagonist:

If you don't want to decide up front that's cool and all, just be sure that everyone knows what they're getting into at the start of the game. That is, being the Protagonist and being one of the Antagonists are very different experiences, and people need to know that they are getting an experience they're comfortable with up front. That is, if I sit down to play, I might not want to be the protagonist, I don't want to have that dropped into my lap without warning.

On Genre:

This is a tough one. Because I'm very luke warm on westerns personally. Also, I remember the palpable "pop" in the air at conception when I mentioned the idea of a 60s gangster movie, that thing you get when you hit The Awesome in any game's set-up. But there's a lot to be said for a single genre game. I mean, I'm not writing Umläut as a music game, I'm writing it as a Metal game. I'm sure people could (and inevitably will) play Umlaut as rap artistes or dance DJs. While that's awesome, I have no desire to write that game. You seem to feel more that perhaps 6 bullets is a genreless game about revenge?

Having seen Andrew's art for six bullets i think most people will assume that it is a western revenge game. Maybe you should just go with that and put in the back advice for running it in other genres.

Cheers

Iain

Lead Developer Mob Justice RPG

Check out my home brew games like 'Reel Adventures'

Bear in mind that groups playing Six Bullets will typically have discussed playing the game (in the weeks) before the game session happens. So they will be aware of what the game is about.

I am just wary of conflating a few different things: explaining the game to a newbie (as a demo, say), thinking up a setting and genre on the spot (and creating a melting pot of cleverness in front of your very eyes!) and what you need to do at the start of the game to get it started.

I'm not sure if that explains my point any clearer?

I think I've reached a happy medium in my rewrite over the weekend. Setup remains brief to non-existent, and can be as fast and loose as you like with provision for a slightly more substantial conversation about genre or setting.

As written the genre remains Western. Even if I'm not actually having a background section, the art, the examples and the terminology all cry out "Western!" But I am going to have an appendix where I talk about drifts, maybe with a page on each of 2 or 3 different ideas.